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View Full Version : Tough spot in high buyin event



uglytuna
May 8th, 2013, 06:33 PM
Blinds 150/300/50. You have about 36K, and both Villains cover you. Hero has a tough/aggro postflop image but hasnít really been that active preflop, especially from early position. You open to 750 with QQ, and the next player to act, who plays well but doesnít really get much into the whole 3-betting game, mostly takes a lot of flops and plays well postflop, 3bets to 2025.

Another guy, older and on the loose passive side preflop but not a huge fish or anything, cold calls the 3-bet from the CO. Folds back to Hero, who calls.

Flop T93r. 6975 in pot. Hero checks, 3better bets 2500, cold caller raises to 7500, what do you do?

A friend of mine said I should of lead at the flop. I disagreed. Call it weak but I believe it was the best play. I have relative position on my villains post flop and can see what happens on the flop without putting any more money into the flop. Basically I'm set mining. With my hand I would had to commit a lot of chips and I hope I'm not against AA or KK in that spot. I can find another spot to put my money in. I'm very passive out of position and play small pots when I don't have position when the stacks are deep. This play in this spot prevented me from going broke or committing a lot of chips into the pot when I'm not certain I have the best hand. If I lead out and get flat called and 3Bet on the flop. What do you do on the turn and river? I would be putting a lot of chips into a pot that I'm not certain I have a big hand.
With that stacks this deep, I can pick a better spot. Even if my hand was best when I folded.

My friend and I are in total disagreement. Please chime in?

Greg
@uglytuna

Xopods
May 8th, 2013, 08:01 PM
As played, I think you have to fold if these guys aren't maniacs or fish. You could theoretically be ahead, if 3-better has AK or AQs or JJ, and CO has QJ or AT... but given that you need them both to be on a relatively small portion of their overall range in order to be ahead, your combined odds are pretty bad, and you're in rough shape if either of them is ahead of you, whether it's CO with TT/99/T9 or 3-better with 99/TT/KK/AA.

I'm with you that donk/fold is not a smart way to play here, so as far as that goes I agree with you and disagree with your friend... donking an overpair you're unsure about might be smart against a bad/transparent/straightforward player, but if you think this guy is good postflop, you're kind of announcing your hand in doing so.

Personally, though, I'm almost never calling with QQ preflop against two opponents; I'd prefer to make a smallish 4-bet and fold to a shove, given that your read on the guy is that he doesn't get into raising wars lightly.

I suppose you're deep enough to just play the QQ for set value if you think you're up against AA/KK too often, but if the guy's a decent player, he couldn't be that nitty could he? If that's your plan preflop though, then clearly check/fold is the way to go after the 3-better c-bets and CO raises.

Steve R
May 9th, 2013, 03:58 AM
I'm reluctantly folding there.

I think flatting is fine and I wouldn't consider it playing for set value, especially if Villain 1 has a snug range at this point since he'll fold TT/JJ/AQs and maybe AK, and shove when he has AA or KK. If Villain 2 doesn't raise on the flop you can put in a raise when you have an overpair. When Villain 1 and Villain 2 both get giddy about the flop then you know you're probably beat

uglytuna
May 9th, 2013, 05:20 AM
I'm reluctantly folding there.

I think flatting is fine and I wouldn't consider it playing for set value, especially if Villain 1 has a snug range at this point since he'll fold TT/JJ/AQs and maybe AK, and shove when he has AA or KK. If Villain 2 doesn't raise on the flop you can put in a raise when you have an overpair. When Villain 1 and Villain 2 both get giddy about the flop then you know you're probably beat


I did fold to the 3bet on the flop. Basically if I'm good I'm on a negative freeroll.

The hands did get showdown. The 3bettor had AK and the Cold Caller had JJ.

I still liked my fold with the stacks this deep. If I had less than 30 BBs I would 4 bet shove the flop.

Xopods
May 9th, 2013, 05:52 AM
You say this guy is good post-flop and he called the CO's raise with AK high and no draw?