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  1. #1
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    Default BANKROLL HELP - SHOULD I BE FREAKING OUT? AM I DOING OK?

    So I started playing professionally (and by professionally, I mean as my solid, only source of income) as of Jan. 27, 2014. I strictly ONLY play 1/2 NL Texas Hold 'Em. My bankroll was at $9,000 when I started. As of today (4/17/2014) I'm at my longest losing streak of 4 games (yes, I've gone this long without having a 4 game losing streak) and down to $5600; my all time low.

    47 sessions total, however I now only play at one venue and of the total # of my sessions here (37) I have a 62.2% winning percentage (23 wins) and a 37.8% losing percentage (14 losses) over 213.5 hours.

    Things were looking great as of the beginning of April through April 6th, I'd won $1954. Things started to get ugly come 4/7 with a -492 session, followed by -130, -415 and after a week off due to illness, tonight I had a huge loss of -595, totaling -$1632.

    I've attached a session chart for some additional data.

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    Not really sure what I'm looking for as far as advice, or whatnot, but I feel like with my current downswing that I'm not really making the wrong decisions.

    i.e. Running into set over set on the flop, and tonight alone I put a guy on AK or AQ and I was correct. I shoved with 8s thinking I had the best hand (which I did), and he flopped an ace. Final hand of the evening I was short stacked with 102, and it's raised to 10 with two callers. Comes back to me I shove. Call. Fold. Call. My AK vs AQ vs A10. Low cards on the flop. Brick on the turn. 10 on the river, felting me. Other races such as my AQ vs QQ, flopping an A only to get one-outered by a Q on the river.

    Am I doing something wrong? Should I be freaking out that my bankroll is almost halfway gone when I'm making the right decisions? AM I making the right decisions? I never bring more than 3 buy-ins ($600) with me to a session. Is it time I start bringing less? Do I start buying in for less? Am I over-reacting?

    Any advice would be much appreciated and I look forward to some helpful thoughts.

  2. #2
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    You don't play a whole lot of hands live, so that looks like normalish variance to me. And you have made $500 profit over that period.

    If your roll is down to $5600 from $9000 despite $500 profit, I guess that means your living expenses are coming out of the roll. In that case, I think the problem is simply that you're either not good enough or not putting in enough hours to support yourself playing live $1/$2 NL.

    As you would expect, even a good player's hourly rate is not going to be spectacular when you're playing the lowest game available. It's a long, miserable grind to make a living that way. How many hours a week are you playing on average, ignoring the week you were sick?
    Quote Originally Posted by pikachar
    Honestly didn t read OP I just got to say xopods is right on the money
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  3. #3
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    I need a hand history to really identify some leaks in your gameplay. I'm not as good as some of the players on here such as Xopods, but I've probably seen as many hands playing Online poker as it would take 10 years or so of playing live.

    For example, what were the stack sizes at the start of the hand? That's a useful detail for me. I'm guessing you're buying in for 100 big blinds. Losing 2 1/2 buy ins in a session isn't unusual for me, could be variance that's eating into your bankroll rather than a lot of bad plays but you've only given me two hands to go off of which were rather light on details.

    Why'd you join this forum only after you decided to go professional? Are you on lots of other forums, or are you new to the internet poker community entirely?

    I'm curious as to what your background in poker is besides going pro 4 months ago. I've played Online Poker probably every other day out of the year on average for 2 years solid, so I've seen lots of hands.


    This is what I've learned, is that I don't really focus on results. "money" is a byproduct of my success at poker.

    Also I wouldn't "decide" to go pro. Going pro for me would come as a no brainer when I start realizing that in the last 612 months of playing, from 100's of sessions and several thousand hands I've played, that I was making more money playing poker over working at my job.

    THis is how I see these hands. You were ahead when all the money went in. To me the hand is essentially over at that point, and if you made a +EV play, then thats basically all you can do and pat yourself on the back because it was +EV. the more +EV, the better the play that was made, and the results don't really matter. Everything that happens after the money went in is essentially a show after that, to me though you won the hand.

    This might be hard for you to swallow though since you probably don't see nearly as many hands playing live as I do from multitabling Online for hours upon hours on end.

    This is easier for me to say that the results don't really matter though because I don't really derive any of my income or financial well being off the money thats in my poker bankroll where you probably feel pressured to make a living now that you've gone pro. I personally can't play poker as well when I feel like I'm pressured to HAVE to win, more of a psychological thing for me I guess.

    My bankroll is like money in my stock account, it never sees the light of day for the most part even though I know its there. I play online though.
    Last edited by JimmyS1985; April 17th, 2014 at 04:39 AM.

  4. #4
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    I wanted to say one last thing. All in shoving PF, either 50bb or 100bb on AKo OR pocket 8s to me are very questionable plays for a "professional poker player"

    Also the Emergency nature of the thread title tells me he probably doesn't handle downswings or tilt very well AT ALL, something that I have reduced to being a very small factor in my poker gameplay and I'm not even what I'd call a professional, just a "winning player".

    Those are plays that would cause me to put a note next to your name on when I'm in future hands with you. Those are the types of plays from the types of players where I make most of my money. If I were shoving 100bb PF on 8s its because I'm one of the only people in the hand left to act and I've spotted a guy repeatedly shoving all in PF on trash hands like K7o or Ace rag. But a pocket pair against a hand with two overs, if I were at your table Id be waiting to catch a decent pocket pair and take you to value town.

    It MIGHT be excusable if you're really short stacked in a MTT but seriously those are shove worthy hands? Because in terms of PF ranges, there's a lot of hands that beats your all in PF shove range. On my site shoving all in on pocket 8s vs AKo, the only real winner for those hands is the rake overall.

    This is what I think you should HONESTLY do. No bullshit. CASHOUT NOW and rethink living the life of a professional gambler. I think you need to reenter the workforce TODAY and if you still dream of being a professional poker player, take your $500 in profit, and deposit some of it on an Online Poker site like Bovada and grind out at the $.05 big blind tables like I did. That's where I got my start and now I'm up to 25nl, with almost my entire bank roll from my winnings from other poker players.I wouldn't even recommend 25nl with your $500 in profit because the Online Poker players will turn that to $0 if given time, particularly at the 25nl tables.

    I think a lot of people want to be professional gamblers/poker players, but I also think a lot of people have more money than sense and hop into the highest stakes games they can "afford" while at the same time having next to no knowledge about the game and how to properly play and improve at it. One friend of mine, now this is hearsay, told me he knew a man that owned 19 tanning salons, hopped right into high stakes poker with $1 million bankroll and LOST IT ALL. And then you have players like me who started at the very bottom rungs of the poker economy and slowly but surely, just like the tortoise and the hare, graduated to each individually higher stakes of poker.
    Last edited by JimmyS1985; April 17th, 2014 at 06:49 AM.

  5. #5
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    If your living expenses are coming out of your roll, then that's not your roll. That's your savings.

    Budget out what you need to survive, remove 3 months expenses from your savings, then whats left is your roll. Then figure out what games you need to be playing to earn a months expenses over the course of a month. Assume a very modest win rate. Given a low win rate, and modest standard deviation, If I remember correctly, Limit will need 300 bets for a bank, No limit 3000 (correct me here please guys).

    We have many good articles and threads on bankroll management. Some of them are old, but still very good.
    Luck is a Residue of Design.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xopods View Post
    You don't play a whole lot of hands live, so that looks like normalish variance to me. And you have made $500 profit over that period.

    If your roll is down to $5600 from $9000 despite $500 profit, I guess that means your living expenses are coming out of the roll. In that case, I think the problem is simply that you're either not good enough or not putting in enough hours to support yourself playing live $1/$2 NL.

    As you would expect, even a good player's hourly rate is not going to be spectacular when you're playing the lowest game available. It's a long, miserable grind to make a living that way. How many hours a week are you playing on average, ignoring the week you were sick?
    Thanks for your reply,
    You're right that my living expenses are coming out of the roll, aside from rent. Weekly I'm between 20-30 hours.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    All in shoving PF, either 50bb or 100bb on AKo OR pocket 8s to me are very questionable plays for a "professional poker player"
    I had 28bb, not something I make a habit of doing regularly (especially) with a large stack.
    Thanks for your input, much appreciated.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    Why'd you join this forum only after you decided to go professional? Are you on lots of other forums, or are you new to the internet poker community entirely?

    I'm curious as to what your background in poker is besides going pro 4 months ago. I've played Online Poker probably every other day out of the year on average for 2 years solid, so I've seen lots of hands.

    This is the first forum I've joined simply out of curiosity. Before going pro, I played only occasionally, and wound up making more playing than I did my real job. So I said f*ck it. Saved up a bunch of loot, and started playing every day.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    I need a hand history to really identify some leaks in your gameplay. I'm not as good as some of the players on here such as Xopods, but I've probably seen as many hands playing Online poker as it would take 10 years or so of playing live.
    Because I'm playing live, I don't have too detailed of a hand history to go over as if I were playing online.

  10. #10
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    Are you a member of Float The Turn. Jonathan shows a good method of recording your hands from live play while you are playing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Little View Post
    I typed out a nice long reply then I realized it said almost the exact same thing as jjpregler said right above me.


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