Welcome to PokerForums.org

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Results 1 to 5 of 5
  1. #1
    Private First Class
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    33
    PFO Points
    340

    Default Sags to my right send me home

    25 Mtt live- placed first in yesterday's tourney same time. Thought I'd try again this morning
    start stack 10k
    6 h table
    2 in front of me are:
    loose SAG has knocked me out before
    my immediate right is lag


    KQ off
    stack 7.5k
    50/ 100
    Position BB


    The two to my right- (as I've witnessed before) during all the early levels are relentlessly winning pots by 3 betting, 4 betting, entering and raising. Basically running over. Feeling too card dead to fight back, they're eating up mine and everyone else's stack. I finally end up with KQ off on BB.


    MP limper
    Btn raises 3.5x (15k stack -had me covered)
    sb folds
    I re-raise and 3 bet (7.5bb)
    limper folds, Btn calls


    flop- A(d) X J(d)
    I c bet 10bb
    he calls


    turn- 2 (d)
    i shove like an idiot
    he calls


    river- 2(c)


    he he turns over AhQh
    i go home after 25 min of play embarrassed and furious with myself


    even though I thought he was trying to steal at first then repping the ace, I had nothing and continued to ignore the signs. I was getting tired of him stealing and dominating the table...This player has knocked me out before with AQ.
    In hindsight :
    Checking down was the only good option from the turn on... Maybe even the flop...c betting was acceptable only because I wanted some info... Still very discouraged with my play.

  2. #2
    Super Moderator Xopods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    4,281
    PFO Points
    34646

    Default

    What is a SAG? I mean, I gather that they're maniacs by the description of their play, but what does the S stand for?

    Anyway, the way to deal with a maniac is not to play back at them, but to call them down light. 3-betting him and trying to push him off post is exactly what he wants.

    Just start calling him with anything that has reasonable equity, and once you hit middle pair or better, just buckle in, cross your fingers and call down.
    Quote Originally Posted by pikachar
    Honestly didn t read OP I just got to say xopods is right on the money
    I design board & card games!: http://www.benefactum.ca

  3. #3
    Brigadier General
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Levittown PA
    Posts
    2,954
    PFO Points
    46436
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xopods View Post
    What is a SAG? I mean, I gather that they're maniacs by the description of their play, but what does the S stand for?

    Anyway, the way to deal with a maniac is not to play back at them, but to call them down light. 3-betting him and trying to push him off post is exactly what he wants.

    Just start calling him with anything that has reasonable equity, and once you hit middle pair or better, just buckle in, cross your fingers and call down.
    First I am assuming that SAG stands for super aggressive and I will assume that equates with what I know as a HyperLAG.

    In general yes, but we do need to 3 bet them once in a while as well. With KQ here, I'm not too sure 3 betting is a great option. Let's examine the whole situation. I think calling with KQ is superior. What are you doing if he 4 bets you preflop? You probably have to find a fold.

    Against his range KQ is probably going to play pretty well, so why would you risk having him 4 bet you off this hand. I would prefer 3 betting with hands strong enough to call off his shove and bluffs that you wouldn't mind folding if he 4 bets you. KQ fits neither of those categories.

    On the flop after your 3 bet, you have to c-bet here. He calls. What do you think his range of hands is with a call? Is he calling with total air on a flop that nails your 3 bet range? Of course he may have a flush draw, but he called a 3 bet with only about 10:1 implied odds, so he probably doesn't have too many hands like 54s in his range still. That will lower the incidence of him having flush draws.

    He doesn't have a monster too often. There is a flush draw and this board nails your 3 betting range, so if he has a monster, I think he tries to get it in on the flop.

    That leaves marginal hands with showdown value. Mostly Ax, maybe some hands like KJ or QJ, but how many of those call a 3 bet?

    so we have a marginal hand range Ax most likely. To determine whether we can fire two bullets you have to assess the plan:

    1) what hand target are you trying to get him to fold? top pair
    2) is it likely that he folds top pair in a low SPR pot? no

    So if you do an insanity check before shoving your stack in, you would realize it will not work nearly enough to show a profit.

    It's clear his aggression put you on tilt.

    David Inselberg once told me that if anyone is playing in such a way that it is giving you fits, you should look to incorporate that into your own game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Little View Post
    I typed out a nice long reply then I realized it said almost the exact same thing as jjpregler said right above me.


  4. #4
    Sergeant First Class
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    244
    PFO Points
    2980

    Default

    You have my sympathy. I just posted somewhere in another thread how I rarely tilt but went right off the deep end because an agro player to my right kept raising every time I as about to enter a pot or if he limped and I raised he would call and then bully me out of the pot. You can only take that for so long because you never get a chance to make any plays of your own. Like you I ended up blowing off the rest of it on a crazy bluff. I was really shocked that this happened to me

  5. #5
    Private First Class
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    33
    PFO Points
    340

    Default

    BetOnline Promo

    Thanks nitty. I have to say that just hearing that from another respected player like yourself makes it a little easier for me to deal with it. I've played several tourneys since and have been very successful handling it and folding responsibly and smartly. In my opinion, folding when I'm possibly being bullied but my "sensible" mind is telling me I'm beat, is one of the most difficult psychological hurdles in the game. As a good mental tool I tell myself that by folding in certain circumstances, I'm actually beating my opponent in the long run. It keeps my stack safe and will enable me to take him down the next time...

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •